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 Ram Jaane

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starrysky

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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:20 pm

^ Yes, I like that review too! Also read it on the PPCC blog some time ago and agreed with a lot of things. Though I don't agree with the assessment of Murli and Bella. I personally liked Murli a lot. I think I cried when he tried to convince Bella to go to Ram Jaane, saying that Ram Jaane needed love... It just was a very-very poignant moment for me.

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Thankfully, this whole sequence - which is no doubt supposed to carry emotional resonance...
Yes, exactly, -- it resonated with me just as the filmmakers intended it to do... I thought Murli was a very likeable and kind guy. Helping the homeless kids like that and trying to reform Ram Jaane.

Gaja Gamini wrote:
...and whatever might have been the message of the film....
It's an interesting issue, btw, -- what was the message of this film. I think it was probably illustrated in the title song, where Bella implores Ram Jaane to fight the circumstances, strive for better life and not hate himself... Also when Ram Jaane gives his speech in the court about the homeless kids -- the society judges him and condemns him to death... but it didn't help him when he was left all alone on the street with no one to care for him and love him.

Gaja Gamini wrote:
BTW I´m not trying to argue or undermine you here Very Happy Just putting down some thoughts....
No, I know you're not. When I said "I'm not claiming that many people will agree with me here", I didn't mean "here on MM" but "on this movie"... That's my Russian language interefering... Smile I don't know why I feel strongly about this film but I do, for some reason. My heart always aches for such characters like Ram Jaane -- misguided but innately good. Maybe because my brother was a bit like that and his life ended very tragically(((



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Gaja Gamini
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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:47 pm

Oh I´m really sorry to hear that Sad Do you mind my asking whatever happened to him?

as for the message - well, i guess I was so turned off by the time Ram jaane was at court I wasn´t really paying attention....
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starrysky

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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:49 pm

Gaja Gamini wrote:
Oh I´m really sorry to hear that Sad Do you mind my asking whatever happened to him?
Thanks, GG. No, I don't mind you asking at all. He was a drug addict... But I can't tell what happened to him in the end, it's too horrible...(( I can only say that it was not normal life but hell for my whole family for about 15 years.

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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:10 pm

Nadia-You are welcome! Smile Did you make the videos?

I liked the review too..but i disagree with the prostitute thing!Bela was "NOT" a prostitute in the film..And Srk and Juhi never had sex or anything of that sort in the film..so the comment that Ram Jaane wanted Bela for his sexual needs or something is wrong!

I quite liked Juhi's character..though i wished she had loved Ram Jaane instead of Murli lol Razz

And Vivek Mushran..jeezzzz..i can't stand him!Worst actor ever! :s
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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:30 pm

Nadia - that is really sad. I´m so sorry.

Naz - They are not saying Bela was a prostitute. But Murli is basically giving her to Ram Jaane, literally to do anything he pleases with her, and she doesn´t object. In a way Murli can be seen as a pimp. Plus it´s not just sex what makes women prostitutes. It´s when they are selling their body somehow and they get paid for it (or it Bella´s case doing it because somebody else wants it). Just recall Chandramukhi.She was not sleeping with guys (unless she wished that after they put a lot of effort into charming her), her main profession was DANCING and ENTERTAINMENT. Yet she is labelled as prostitute.
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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:31 pm

BTW I enjoyed Vivek in Prem Deewane, but he played a silly kid there, nothing serious or demanding.
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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:03 pm

Ohh..that!

Yeah..that i agree..Murli was an idiot in the film!And Bela did object to it but she gave in as she loved Murli!

You like Vivek?

I thought Chandramukhi was just there for dance/entertainment as you said..some prostitutes are there who just dance,but do not sell their body.. Chandramukhi didn't really sleep with anyone right? :s
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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:02 pm

I think she did - when she wanted. In the book she defo did with Devdas.
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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:12 pm

You have the book?

With Devdas aka. SRK is fine ahahaha Razz Very Happy

Nooooooooo..can't be with other men! :s
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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:29 pm





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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:06 am

Naznin wrote:
Did you make the videos?
No, no, they are not mine.

I don't think it was prostitution with Bella. A pimp gets money for selling a woman's body. Murli was not selling Bella in any way. He was just selflessly sacrificing his love for her. I think he hoped that with time Bella would love Ram Jaane and her love would cure him -- since he literally never knew love in his life.



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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:10 am



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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:14 am





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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:18 am









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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:21 am





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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:48 am

The word "to prostitute" doesn´t mean literally here, but in a away it defo looked like it. But let´s leave that, I don´t think there´s any deep discssion possible now.
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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:32 am

Gaja Gamini wrote:
But let´s leave that, I don´t think there´s any deep discssion possible now.
Oh, why not?... I think we're having a good discussion... But if you want to agree to disagree it's absolutely fine and natural, of course. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just putting down my thoughts and arguments.

I don't agree with the use of the word "prostitution" here because prostitution implies material gain. Even if it is used metaphorically as in e.g. "Many felt he was prostituting his talents by writing Hollywood scripts", it implies selling something... Murli wasn't selling Bella. The only thing that he got in return was the hope that Ram Jaane might turn away from his criminal activities. In that sense, yes, he was "getting" something in return... but not for his gain and it wasn't a material gain.

But in this respect "Yes Boss" is a far worse offender. You can look at Rahul as a pimp of sorts. At least, that's what some critics said when the film came out and Shahrukh had to defend Rahul in interviews. But Rahul was indeed helping his boss get Seema into bed in exchange for present (money) and future (his own firm) dividends. Hence all his inner conflict. It was prostitution not even metaphorically but literally and in all senses -- involving sex for Seema and money for Rahul. And it is also only fair to note that before Seema came along -- a girl that he himself liked -- Rahul didn't have any moral scruples managing the affairs between his boss and those other girls. It seems that he "arranged" those girls for his boss and then pacified them when they found out that the boss was married.

Even in "Yes Boss" I personally don't look at Rahul as a pimp. I only came to know that that's how he was perceived at the time by some critics when I read some articles.

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But the film is ambiguous as to how far Murli expects Bela to go: what, exactly, is going to reform RJ? Faux love? Sex? Is Bela supposed to love RJ for real? Does Murli expect RJ to be fooled by Bela's fake love? Obviously not. So is it sexual? Obviously not that, either.
(bold is mine) I think it's the rift between Western and Eastern sensibilities speaking here. I think in India, where arranged marriages are a norm, people might believe the notion that even if a woman does not love her husband at first, she will learn to love him later. We've got this proverb in Russian "стерпится-слюбится", which literally means -- "Even you don't love him now, you'll grow used to him and love will blossom out of that". Romantic love is all very well -- but it often evaporates in marriage. Marriages of convenience are actually often more stable because there is no disenchantment and disillusionment involved here. It's similar to "Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi" where Taani doesn't love her husband at first but grows to love him. I think Murli was hoping for the same -- that Bella would grow to love Ram Jaane.
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PostSubject: Re: Ram Jaane   Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:26 am

If you see it like that, we of course can continue Smile see - for me "prostitution" is NOT just about material gain... and you pretty well described the situation with Murli - and that´s just it. To me it definitely looks like a prostitution in a certain way, even though not in the most commonly used sense of the word.

And YES. Yes Boss is much, much worse in the aspect, but unlike Murli SRK´s character comes to a relization it´s wrong.... I too did not see him as a "pimp", but you just know what he was doing was wrong. And so when someone else comes up with such a word, it´s not exactly wrong perception.

As for the other part of your post.... Actually it seemed to me Murli cared a lot about Ram Jaane but not at all about Bella. He wanted Ram Jaane to be happy. He basically emotionally blackmailed Bella so she would do what he wanted. To me it seemed Murli doesn´t give a damn about how Bella feels at all, hence he didn´t care if she loves him or not - but he was hoping that by having her Ram Jaane would reform.
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